On Mar 11, 6:36 pm, "Tony" <t...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
An interesting question, but in need of some interpretation. If we count words like "thoat" or "scrith" which are only found in the works of a single author or discussions thereof, the winner is likely to be some obscure book by someone who has never read any real science fiction. So I think we should stick to words which have caught on with the general public, or at least with other science fiction writers; words such as "blaster", "grok", "Newspeak", or "starship".
I sure don't know the answer. Probably something by J. W. Campbell or "Doc" Smith? Olaf Stapledon? Anybody who wanted to do the research could start with the data at the Science Fiction Citations website: http://www.jessesword.com/sf/list
By restricting the competition to novels, you ignore all the stfnal words that originated in short stories ("chronoscope") or plays ("robot"). It might be more interesting to ask which science fiction *authors* have invented the most words. It's hard to say, but it seems to be a race between Campbell, Heinlein, and Smith, according to the discussion here: http://tenser.typepad.com/tenser_said_the_tensor/2007/07/review-brave...
On 2010-03-11 17:52:48 -0800, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> said:
> It might be more interesting to ask which science fiction > *authors* have invented the most words. It's hard to say, but it seems > to be a race between Campbell, Heinlein, and Smith, according to the > discussion here: > http://tenser.typepad.com/tenser_said_the_tensor/2007/07/review-brave...
If you extend it to fantasy authors and include THE TEMPEST, Bill Shakespeare wins the gold.
I believe he's ranked as the author who introduced more words to the English language than any other, though to be fair most of them were not in SF works.
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:36:35 -0500, "Tony" <t...@hotmail.com> wrote: >Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
Alice in Wonderland?
The Tempest?
The Iliad?
Gulliver's Travels?
-- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
How about books that play with words, such as _A Clockwork Orange_?
-- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
On Mar 11, 8:02 pm, Kurt Busiek <k...@busiek.com> wrote:
> On 2010-03-11 17:52:48 -0800, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> said:
> > It might be more interesting to ask which science fiction > > *authors* have invented the most words. It's hard to say, but it seems > > to be a race between Campbell, Heinlein, and Smith, according to the > > discussion here: > >http://tenser.typepad.com/tenser_said_the_tensor/2007/07/review-brave...
> If you extend it to fantasy authors and include THE TEMPEST, Bill > Shakespeare wins the gold.
Oh, right. I forgot about Shakespeare. I assume you're referring to the Elizabethan playwright, not the sporting-goods Hall-of-Famer: http://tinyurl.com/yj79a32
> I believe he's ranked as the author who introduced more words to the > English language than any other, though to be fair most of them were > not in SF works.
Yeah, I seem to recall reading the same thing. I wonder if scholars think he invented all those words, or if many of them were everyday spoken words that Will was the first to use in literature? Did the plays find favor with the public because of the refreshingly naturalistic dialogue? Were many fans complaining about all the silly made-up words, as they did later in the case of [ObSF] Margaret St. Clair's "Oona and Jick" stories?
In article <9c9jp5l7b640l18ikvo0ajmeqjs4tvn...@4ax.com>, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:36:35 -0500, "Tony" <t...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
>The Iliad?
The Iliad isn't science fiction, and it isn't a novel, and I can't offhand think of any words invented in it.
-- David Goldfarb |"Everyone generalizes from insufficient data. goldf...@ocf.berkeley.edu | I know I do." goldf...@csua.berkeley.edu | -- Steven Brust
>> It might be more interesting to ask which science fiction >> *authors* have invented the most words. It's hard to say, but it seems >> to be a race between Campbell, Heinlein, and Smith, according to the >> discussion here: >> http://tenser.typepad.com/tenser_said_the_tensor/2007/07/review-brave...
>If you extend it to fantasy authors and include THE TEMPEST, Bill >Shakespeare wins the gold.
>I believe he's ranked as the author who introduced more words to the >English language than any other, though to be fair most of them were >not in SF works.
I've seen an editorial that relates word primacy in Shakespear to lazy editors at Oxford. -- Tomorrow is today already. Greg Goss, 1989-01-27
Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote: >On Mar 11, 8:02 pm, Kurt Busiek <k...@busiek.com> wrote: >Oh, right. I forgot about Shakespeare. I assume you're referring to >the Elizabethan playwright, not the sporting-goods Hall-of-Famer: >http://tinyurl.com/yj79a32
You sure he's not talking about the guy who tries to educate novice Canadian investors?
On Mar 11, 6:52 pm, Butch Malahide <fred.gal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 11, 6:36 pm, "Tony" <t...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
> An interesting question, but in need of some interpretation. If we > count words like "thoat" or "scrith" which are only found in the works > of a single author or discussions thereof, the winner is likely to be > some obscure book by someone who has never read any real science > fiction. So I think we should stick to words which have caught on with > the general public, or at least with other science fiction writers; > words such as "blaster", "grok", "Newspeak", or "starship". > I sure don't know the answer. Probably something by J. W. Campbell or > "Doc" Smith? Olaf Stapledon? Anybody who wanted to do the research > could start with the data at the Science Fiction Citations website: > http://www.jessesword.com/sf/list
Stranger in a Strange Land does come to mind, but then, so does Brave New World. Hugo Gernsback certainly tried...
On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:19:43 GMT, goldf...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David
Goldfarb) wrote: >>>Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
>>The Iliad?
>The Iliad isn't science fiction, and it isn't a novel, and I can't >offhand think of any words invented in it.
I should have used its sequel, but you're right it precedes the modern novel form. There are translated words that I have not come across in any earlier work, such as Cyclops. Whether or not they were invented by The Odyssey, I don't know.
-- "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
Howard Brazee wrote: > On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:19:43 GMT, goldf...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David > Goldfarb) wrote:
> >>>Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
> >>The Iliad?
> >The Iliad isn't science fiction, and it isn't a novel, and I can't > >offhand think of any words invented in it.
> I should have used its sequel, but you're right it precedes the modern > novel form. There are translated words that I have not come across > in any earlier work, such as Cyclops. Whether or not they were > invented by The Odyssey, I don't know.
Greg Goss wrote: > Kurt Busiek <k...@busiek.com> wrote: >> On 2010-03-11 17:52:48 -0800, Butch Malahide >> <fred.gal...@gmail.com> said:
>>> It might be more interesting to ask which science fiction >>> *authors* have invented the most words. It's hard to say, but it >>> seems to be a race between Campbell, Heinlein, and Smith, >>> according to the discussion here: >>> http://tenser.typepad.com/tenser_said_the_tensor/2007/07/review-brave...
>> If you extend it to fantasy authors and include THE TEMPEST, Bill >> Shakespeare wins the gold.
>> I believe he's ranked as the author who introduced more words to >> the English language than any other, though to be fair most of them >> were not in SF works.
> I've seen an editorial that relates word primacy in Shakespear to > lazy editors at Oxford.
I wouldn't go that far, but considering that (1) Shakespeare authored a large corpus of work; and (2), given his reputation as the greatest author ever, the scholars working on the OED went over the entire corpus with a finetooth comb, it shouldn't be surprising if they ended up with a fair number of first citations from Shakespeare due to overlooking earlier examples.
In my own philological research on fantasy diction (see my book Weird Words at the URL in my sigfile), I've found many citations that antedate the earliest in the OED; for example, Christopher Marlowe used the word Cyclopean some fifty years before the OED's first citation.
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind. -- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
Mike Schilling wrote: > Tony wrote: >> Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
> Finnegans Wake.
If you can count it as science fiction. If not, works that have emulated its neologistic style include Brian Aldiss's Barefoot in the Head and Robert Anton Wilson's Masks of the Illuminati. I highly recommend both works.
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind. -- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote: >"Tony" <t...@hotmail.com> wrote: >>Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
>Alice in Wonderland?
>The Tempest?
>The Iliad?
>Gulliver's Travels?
... Finnegans Wake?
Dave "okay, so it's technically not quite SF" DeLaney -- \/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK> http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Robert Carnegie wrote: >Howard Brazee wrote: >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:19:43 GMT, goldf...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David >> Goldfarb) wrote:
>> >>>Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
>> >>The Iliad?
>> >The Iliad isn't science fiction, and it isn't a novel, and I can't >> >offhand think of any words invented in it.
>> I should have used its sequel, but you're right it precedes the modern >> novel form. There are translated words that I have not come across >> in any earlier work, such as Cyclops. Whether or not they were >> invented by The Odyssey, I don't know.
> >Howard Brazee wrote: > >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:19:43 GMT, goldf...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David > >> Goldfarb) wrote:
> >> >>>Which science fiction novel invented the most new words?
> >> >>The Iliad?
> >> >The Iliad isn't science fiction, and it isn't a novel, and I can't > >> >offhand think of any words invented in it.
> >> I should have used its sequel, but you're right it precedes the modern > >> novel form. There are translated words that I have not come across > >> in any earlier work, such as Cyclops. Whether or not they were > >> invented by The Odyssey, I don't know.
> >Where do the robots come in?
> Supporting the lame Hephaestus.
I don't think he's going to like being called "lame". Watch out for mechanical failures in your daily life from noon :-)
(Usually we respect Murphy and Finagle, but shouldn't we honour a god who makes things work?)
<rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote: >Jack Bohn wrote: >> Robert Carnegie wrote:
>> >Howard Brazee wrote: >> >> On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 03:19:43 GMT, goldf...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David >> >> Goldfarb) wrote:
>> >> >The Iliad isn't science fiction, and it isn't a novel, and I can't >> >> >offhand think of any words invented in it.
>> >> I should have used its sequel, but you're right it precedes the modern >> >> novel form. There are translated words that I have not come across >> >> in any earlier work, such as Cyclops. Whether or not they were >> >> invented by The Odyssey, I don't know.
>> >Where do the robots come in?
>> Supporting the lame Hephaestus.
>I don't think he's going to like being called "lame". Watch out for >mechanical failures in your daily life from noon :-)
Dang! Well, what should a proper homeric epithet be?
>(Usually we respect Murphy and Finagle, but shouldn't we honour a god >who makes things work?)
Is there a Catholic patron saint of tech?
As a side note: saw TV ads for the remake of Clash of the Titans yesterday. Perseus named, winged horse and Kraken shown, but no hint of the Hephaestus-build gear-worked robot owl.
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 06:03:50 -0500, Jack Bohn wrote: > On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 19:45:02 -0800 (PST), Robert Carnegie > <rja.carne...@excite.com> wrote: [----] >>(Usually we respect Murphy and Finagle, but shouldn't we honour a god >>who makes things work?)
> Is there a Catholic patron saint of tech?
A lot of them, less or more specialized.
Albertus Magnus (Albert the Great) is the patron saint of scientists, especially chemists, while St. Dominic Guzman is the patron of astronomers. St. Barbara and St. Thomas the Apostle are the patrons of (among other things) architects and builders, St. Dunstan - of blacksmiths, St. Dominic Calzada - of civil engineers, St. Isidore of Sevilla - of programmers and everything computer-related, Gabriel the Archangel - of radio and telecom technicians, St. Joseph of Cupertino - of aviators and astronauts (allegedly, he was somewhat slow-witted, but capable of miraculous levitation...)
The patrons of engineers in general are St. Patrick (yes, the same who is the patron of Ireland) and St. Ferdinand III, king of Castile (I have no idea why, probably due to a large number of churches, monasteries and hospitals built on his orders).
If Pope Sylvester II was a saint, he would have been a prime candidate, being the inventor and constructor of many interesting devices, like mechanical clocks and hydraulic organ. Unfortunately after his death he was accused of sorcery and pact with the devil, so he has never got canonized.
-- Szymon Sokół (SS316-RIPE) -- Network Manager B Computer Center, AGH - University of Science and Technology, Cracow, Poland O http://home.agh.edu.pl/szymon/ PGP key id: RSA: 0x2ABE016B, DSS: 0xF9289982 F Free speech includes the right not to listen, if not interested -- Heinlein H
On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 06:03:50 -0500, Jack Bohn <jackb...@bright.net> wrote:
<snip>
>As a side note: saw TV ads for the remake of Clash of the Titans >yesterday. Perseus named, winged horse and Kraken shown, but no >hint of the Hephaestus-build gear-worked robot owl.
"Artoo Bubo" as one critic of the original film called him.
Jerry Brown -- A cat may look at a king (but probably won't bother)
Szymon Sokól wrote: > If Pope Sylvester II was a saint, he would have been a prime > candidate, being the inventor and constructor of many interesting > devices, like mechanical clocks and hydraulic organ. Unfortunately > after his death he was accused of sorcery and pact with the devil, so > he has never got canonized.
Figures! One of the lot actually does something useful and he gets accused of sorcery.
> >> >> >The Iliad isn't science fiction, and it isn't a novel, and I can't > >> >> >offhand think of any words invented in it.
> >> >> I should have used its sequel, but you're right it precedes the modern > >> >> novel form. There are translated words that I have not come across > >> >> in any earlier work, such as Cyclops. Whether or not they were > >> >> invented by The Odyssey, I don't know.
> >> >Where do the robots come in?
> >> Supporting the lame Hephaestus.
> >I don't think he's going to like being called "lame". Watch out for > >mechanical failures in your daily life from noon :-)
> Dang! Well, what should a proper homeric epithet be?
I'm not sure ("foot-sore manufacturer", nope), but on a similar note, don't call Dionysius gay... well, on reflection, go ahead. :-)
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